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T4 Quad Headlight Project .......... latest update

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    if I know the price for those you intend to be marketing by Christmas at least I will have as they say a ball park price. I don't expect you to be precise with the figure just a rough costing.
    Leave it with you Turk.


    As above Dave .......... trying my best to keep that figure well below £500

    As for the long nose version, I still have a goal to achieve but I won't compromise the final quality of the product by using inferior parts or materials, which I could do in order to keep prices down. The headlight units to be used in the long nose version will also be totally different, so no 'basic' or 'Classic' units but 'Performance' units. So the units are much more expensive to begin with. My target for those will be the under £600.

    At the end of the day, you really do get what you're paying for. Mass produced aftermarket headlights that are available for around £160, are so inferior to a bespoke designed and fabricated headlight unit, there really is no comparison. Both in performance and construction. And no need to replace my design after a mere two years, as I had to do with my DEPO DRL type headlights !




    Thanks for your interest Dave.






    TURK

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    • #32
      Turk. I'm no 049 on the list. TetleyT4. I reverted back to my original username some time ago.

      Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Just T4s

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      • #33
        Cheers Turk, answer noted. I will have to get saving.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Ian6xtreme View Post
          Turk. I'm no 049 on the list. TetleyT4. I reverted back to my original username some time ago.

          Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Just T4s



          Many thanks for letting me know Ian


          Your Username has now been edited in the 'Pre-Order List' ........











          TURK

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dave T View Post
            Cheers Turk, answer noted. I will have to get saving.


            Thanks Dave



            D'you want me to add you to the 'Pre-Order List' ?




            The 'Pre-Order List' isn't just a list that serves to gauge the interest in a product such as this, but it also allows me to know how many Hella units to buy, and how much materials I need to buy. I have quite a lot of stock when it comes to ABS plastic sheets for thermoforming ​( for the time being ), and I've got a couple dozen Hella headlight units in stock, but I also need to pre-order stuff in order to keep ahead of things.


            Only last year I managed to strike a deal with Hella for the supply of the headlight units, without which, a competitive pricing structure for the project would not have been possible. I would have had to purchase each individual headlight unit at retail prices, it's all part and parcel of keeping the costs down. So, in order to purchase these Hella headlight units, I have to order via Hella UK who in turn acquire the units in Germany, then Hella GmbH Germany send them to the UK, and then they send them to me in France ! lead times can be as much as 6 - 8 weeks !


            Other parts to order ( just to name a few ) ........

            Reels of automotive thinwall cable
            40amp relays
            ATO type fuses
            ATO type diodes
            Fuse holders
            Spade connectors
            PVC conduit


            Just things that I also need to order as I seem to run out all the time ! and not knowing how many units I need to make in order to keep up with demand, I won't know what to order. So anybody thinking of buying a set at a later date, It would help me out immensely if I knew in advance. Just remember guys, you can change your mind at any time .......... it just means I'll have more stock knocking about the place, but I'm willing to invest in this project so having more stock than I need may be good thing. But not having enough stock, will be a bad thing !






            TURK

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            • #36
              Hi guys,


              Just a quick update on the Quad Headlight Project .........



              I'll go into more detail later once I've gone over certain things, ie, updating my drawings as I now have a whole set of new measurements. Countless measurements are required when designing something like this, I don't have the luxury of CAD so most of my dimensions are taken directly off the van. And when you're prototyping certain measurements don't exist yet ! ........ I've been referring to this as 'empty space', but now I have those measurements and a better understanding on how things will fit together, as the entire assembly is of a 'modular' system, mainly for ease of fabrication.

              So here's how things are looking right now.

              The fit ( and the general look, aesthetically speaking ) worked out quite well. There are a few issues I still need to work on though, but all in all .......... I'm quite happy >>






              I'd like to know peoples opinions, good or bad ........ all good information for me, as this is still very much a prototype.








              TURK

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              • #37
                Looking good

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                • #38
                  Liking the look of those a lot.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Just T4s

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                  • #39
                    Looks good any close ups

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                    • #40
                      Thanks for the feedback guys ........ I like that you like !

                      I know the project has been dragging on a bit, but from concept to prototype things are surely beginning to take shape. All along the project and it's different phases, I've been paying a great deal of attention to peoples opinions and ideas, and worked some of those things into my design, and some of those other ideas will be part of future versions of the quad headlights. The finished article will be better still !



                      Originally posted by daftdub View Post
                      Looks good any close ups

                      Yes of course ......... as a keen photographer myself, I'm never shy of taking a couple hundred shots of the same scene !

                      Actually, I use many photos taken from all angles, so I can continue working on my project even though I'm nowhere near my van. It gives me a chance to evaluate, and plan the next stages.




                      As an example ...... lining up the headlight assemblies and checking the positioning of the headlight units, using a laser >>






                      My methods sometimes seem to be a little clumsy, unprofessional or maybe simplistic, but they work for me. I also have callipers, micrometers and rulers that measure ½ a millimetre ....... and I use them ! The correct positioning of the optics is vitally important, get that wrong, and the front of the van won't look right >>




                      So as the quad headlight system has to blend in with the flowing lines of the T4, by that I mean the bonnet and the lower panel, it must be made to look as though it was intended by the original designers. So far the general consensus is that people like them ........ so I think I've managed that >>




                      But I've not had everything my way, till now things have been quite difficult, I've already sorted out many many issues, such as putting two headlight units in an aperture conceived for only one headlight unit. As things stand the prototype looks OK, but looking behind, from inside the engine bay you see another problem. And this is prototyping ......... you make jigs, moulds, plugs and vacuum form your part, test and fit, and then you find another issue that needs resolving ........ such as the two adjuster screws arrowed here. As they are just touching the bulkhead, the positioning of the inboard high beam headlight units, need moving 'outboard' by a centimetre >>





                      But I am quite determined to get this right, and as I suffer from an affliction known as 'OCD', everything has to be perfect. So I will be spending the next few days making yet more moulds to move both inboard high beam units outward by 10mm ! >>








                      Stay tuned for the rest guys ......... the best is yet to come







                      TURK

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                      • #41
                        I'm loving the attention to detail Turk!! I'd expect an Engineer to have OCD as well as perseverance!! Will these upgrades/better than original, need increased power to the headlights, as I measured the voltage at my headlight plug and it was around 11.2v even though the alternator was putting 13.6v @ the battery. How to compensate for this voltage drop (aged wiring I assume is the main cause of the Voltage drop?) as these modern bulbs won't be happy at less than 12v.
                        I am sure you've worked this out, but am hoping that the answer is "simple plug and play upgrade" from higher up the Loom as the prospect of a new wiring upgrade would increase the price fitted by a lot.

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                        • #42
                          Nice i think they look factory wich is a big thumbs up

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                          • #43
                            Looking superb Turk. My money has been put away ready for when these become available.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by caravellvis View Post
                              I'm loving the attention to detail Turk!! I'd expect an Engineer to have OCD as well as perseverance!! Will these upgrades/better than original, need increased power to the headlights, as I measured the voltage at my headlight plug and it was around 11.2v even though the alternator was putting 13.6v @ the battery. How to compensate for this voltage drop (aged wiring I assume is the main cause of the Voltage drop?) as these modern bulbs won't be happy at less than 12v.
                              I am sure you've worked this out, but am hoping that the answer is "simple plug and play upgrade" from higher up the Loom as the prospect of a new wiring upgrade would increase the price fitted by a lot.
                              There are already loom upgrades available to improve the voltage and brightness of the headlights. Check out travelvolts.com. A top man to deal with.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by caravellvis View Post
                                Will these upgrades/better than original, need increased power to the headlights, as I measured the voltage at my headlight plug and it was around 11.2v

                                To answer your question caravellvis, yes, these will be a major upgrade to any other headlight setup currently available for the T4. Not only are the Hella units far superior in performance than the OE headlights or the cheap DRL type headlights, but also, the price will include an upgrade wiring loom. My wiring loom has to be an integral part of the quad headlight system, as it's different from a 'normal' wiring loom available from various traders, as Ian6extreme mentions above. If your headlight wiring drops a mere 10% of it's efficiency, you are only getting 11.8v to your headlights and your bulbs are only operating at 67% of their rated output. Drop another 5% and you're now getting 11.2v to your bulbs, and the rated operating efficiency of your bulbs is only 53% ......... that's half as bright as the bulbs should be !

                                The reason for this is, the quad headlight system has four independent optics, each needing powering. You run power to four bulbs, those four bulbs have to be adequately earthed, and fused. All this is only achievable via relays ( as the T4 doesn't have relays on the lighting system, all the power comes via the headlight switch ). In any 'upgrade wiring loom' the power always come directly from the battery, and the switching is done via the vans original wiring ....... switched via relays. You'll never totally eliminate voltage drop, but you can certainly reduce it and get maximum power to your bulbs. The rest is down to the quality of the reflectors in the headlight units themselves.

                                I researched this in depth right at the beginning of the project. I bought various wiring looms and tested them, the good ones and the cheap ones ! Two things I noticed right away was the difference in some of them. Most only supplied two relays, one relay for high beam and one relay for low beam ......... and only two fuses ! if you were to lose just one fuse or relay ......... you would lose the entire high or low beams. I also noticed on some of the 'budget' wiring looms ( the ones specifically designed for maximum profit, and not safety ! ) were also using a much thinner gauge wiring ! in my mind, not even an upgrade !


                                I would design my wiring loom differently ........ first of all, I would use 2mm² 25amp cable and not the OE wiring that is only 1mm² 16.5amp. Then I would use four relays and four fuses ( one for each headlight unit ). If the fuse should blow you only lose that particular unit, until the fuse is replaced, and not your entire low beams or high beams. But the biggest difference from a regular upgrade wiring loom is the integrated 'Diode'. The diode in the circuit stops the low beam from being switched off when the high beams are turned on, thus giving you all four units on in hight beam. You can't do that with the T4's OE headlights as the bulbs are dual filaments. So even the plugs are different.


                                Here's what the schematic of the wiring loom looks like, and the positioning of the diode >>





                                I also noticed that many of these so called 'upgrade wiring looms', were using a smaller gauge wire on the earth side of things. I'm no sparky, but it's obvious to me that if you have an equal size earth cable to the power source cable you will have a much more efficient circuit. The wiring loom to power the quad headlights is the heart of the system, there's no sense in having kickass headlight units if you don't get maximum power to them.


                                Here's what I came up with - The upgrade wiring loom that will come with the quad headlight system will be a slimmed down version of this. This particular one in the picture is my auxiliary fuse box, so a quick description of what we have along the top row, relays and fuses ( left to right ) ....Offside Low Beam - Offside High Beam - Nearside High beam - Nearside Low Beam. And the bottom row, left to right, Fog lights - Dual horn - WTF horn ! - and a spare circuit.


                                And the arrow pointing to the ATO type diodes that bridge the low beam and high beam circuits. so if you're in low beam and you switch on your high beam, the low beam stays on. In my mind, this is how a true quad headlight system should work >>





                                And a close up of the ATO type diode, much neater way of doing it, as opposed to soldering a diode directly onto the cable >>





                                All in a nice neat little box >>







                                And here's how I'm powering the 'Auxiliary fuse box'. 16mm cable fed directly from the battery via an 80amp strip fuse.
                                Pretty much the same setup as a leisure battery install >>









                                TURK

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