My second T4, operation de-chav

[Activ8]

I would suggest loading the new file. Its your original ECU file remapped rather than one of my generic maps.

Sent by Solar Ray to Just T4s

[regcheeseman]

I would suggest loading the new file. Its your original ECU file remapped rather than one of my generic maps.

Sent by Solar Ray to Just T4s

Didn't fancy risking a remap on the roadside with no charger so ran with the original volvo map

logs logged, emailed to the guru.

[Activ8]

Didn't fancy risking a remap on the roadside with no charger so ran with the original volvo map

logs logged, emailed to the guru.

I've sent 3 (?) So you went with #2? With the tighter N75 map?

Sent by Solar Ray to Just T4s

[Activ8]

Didn't fancy risking a remap on the roadside with no charger so ran with the original volvo map

logs logged, emailed to the guru.

Thanks Reg, email received. The guru pedestal belongs to you mate, I'd prefer disciple - ASSHOPPER!
I have finally received Reg's log runs (2 of), timing graphs and fault codes, so we can now look at why his van is not running so well.

How do you want me to report this , directly back to you or do you want to share the love / pain with the forum?

[regcheeseman]

Thanks Reg, email received. The guru pedestal belongs to you mate, I'd prefer disciple - ASSHOPPER!
I have finally received Reg's log runs (2 of), timing graphs and fault codes, so we can now look at why his van is not running so well.

How do you want me to report this , directly back to you or do you want to share the love / pain with the forum?

Share the love, it may help others.

Would be good to know how they are read - I see they are CSV files, guess an import into excel, but are there programs designed to work with them - any tips or tricks would be good.

[regcheeseman]

Friday	19	January	2018	14:28:52
074 906 018 AK		2.5l R5 EDC 0000SG 3320
	Group A:	'003
		Engine	Air Mass	Air Mass	EGR Valve
	TIME	Speed	Calculated	Actual	Duty Cycle
MARKER	STAMP	/min	mg/R	mg/R	%
	0.7	1571	850	555	4.8
	1.78	1816	850	605	4.8
	2.86	2101	850	700	4.8
	3.93	2366	850	775	4.8
	5.01	2632	850	770	4.8
	6.1	2897	850	760	4.8
	7.2	3142	850	750	4.8
	8.28	3386	850	735	4.8
	9.35	3590	850	725	4.8
	10.44	3774	850	710	4.8
	11.52	3917	850	700	4.8
	12.61	4039	850	690	4.8
	13.65	4141	850	680	4.8
	14.73	4223	850	670	4.8
	Group B:	'008
		Engine Speed	Inj. Quantity	Inj. Quantity	Inj. Quantity
	TIME		Driver Request	Torque Limitation	Smoke Limitation
	STAMP	/min	mg/R	mg/R	mg/R
	0	1448	22	30.4	25.8
	1.06	1652	39.4	31.8	29
	2.14	1918	39	32.6	33.6
	3.22	2183	38.6	32.8	35.4
	4.29	2468	38.2	33	35.4
	5.38	2734	37.8	33	35.4
	6.48	2999	37.6	33	35.4
	7.56	3244	37.2	32.8	35.4
	8.63	3448	37	31.8	35.4
	9.72	3652	36.6	30.2	35.4
	10.8	3815	36.2	28.8	35.2
	11.88	3978	36	27.4	35.2
	12.97	4080	35.8	25.8	34.8
	14.01	4182	35.6	24.6	34.4
	Group C:	'011
		Engine Speed	Charge Air	Charge Air	Charge Air
	TIME		Pressure Calc.	Pressure Actual	Valve D. Cycle
	STAMP	/min	mbar	mbar	%
	0.33	1489	1468.8	1132.2	12.8
	1.42	1734	1570.8	1264.8	12.8
	2.5	1999	1662.6	1458.6	12.8
	3.58	2285	1632	1652.4	14.3
	4.65	2550	1591.2	1693.2	28.3
	5.74	2815	1570.8	1642.2	37.1
	6.84	3080	1560.6	1591.2	44.2
	7.91	3305	1550.4	1591.2	49
	8.99	3529	1540.2	1570.8	53.4
	10.08	3713	1530	1560.6	57.4
	11.16	3876	1519.8	1550.4	60.6
	12.26	4019	1509.6	1530	62.6
	13.3	4121	1509.6	1509.6	63.8
	14.37	4202	1509.6	1509.6	63.4

[regcheeseman]

I can see what it's saying, but no idea what it means - guess knowing the corresponding map values would help?

My first thought was that N75 (Charge air valve duty cycle?) is working quite hard? But then it does seem to think that there is 21 psi? of boost so that would explain that.

Is it 21psi? or do I minus atmospheric from the figure?

[Activ8]

Thought I'd make the viewing a little easier, and used Reg's LogRun1;

Hmmm, this hasn't exactly made it any easier! Apologies!!
The uploader is reducing the sizing automatically....

LogRun1 Download
https://mega.nz/#!fBxxDJaT!xEWl1NHeP...aawrmv_cVq7vcs

Timing Download
https://mega.nz/#!nRx3VAYQ!PkRVMnkfz...2mZWCG2vxtD4PM

Right come on then guys/gals, a little observation and brain power required.... what can you see in the info?

[Jonnybigballs85]

No idea mate all I noticed is the engine temp sensor was saying the engine was to cold for the timing download. I don’t mind making myself look stupid. Also the air flow is less than the calculated value? I’ll climb back on my stool in the corner with my pointy hat on!

Look forward to hearing the real problem though 🤪


Sent from my iPhone using Just T4s

[regcheeseman]

.... what can you see in the info?

Nope give up, is it like one of those magic eye pictures? Stared at it for ages and thought I saw a dolphin?

the air flow is less than the calculated value?

I spotted that but thought nah it's not much, but then what is 'much' could be 12 could be eleventy thousand????


Edumacate us Activ!

[Activ8]

OK, so here goes...

The screen shots and information are available using VagCom / VCDS software and an appropriate cable.
The timing tools in the software strip out the ECU "managing" the timing and adjusting it - it is a true timing figure.

Timing Download
OK just to make this clear Reg had sent me two timing screen shots...
https://mega.nz/#!XZ5z3ZBJ!Uk5TlELj9...ggFDAlXilSGboM

https://mega.nz/#!nRx3VAYQ!PkRVMnkfz...2mZWCG2vxtD4PM

So, what do we see happening, the fuel temp is showing 131 in both pics (this is a decimal figure and not a temperature).
The message says not up to temp.
Note on the graph the three coloured horizontal lines:
Green = 67 Max tolerance = Advanced
Blue = 55 = Perfectly timed for the 2.5TDi engines
Red = 38 = Minimum tolerance = Retarded
First timing screenshot shows a figure in the bottom left hand corner of 38
Then as the coolant temp gets warmer, - on tick over - Reg takes another screenshot.
Second timing screenshot shows a figure in the bottom left hand corner of 18

So as the temp is still rising the timing is becoming more retarded and its not up to temp yet either coolant or fuel plus we're still ticking over.
I won't go on to explain the effects of retarding the timing too far on a diesel. Its not nice, runs really really bad and makes a shit load of unburned diesel smoke.
Its rough and will cut out even with the ECU trying to manage it.

The yellow lines joining at the dot are the timing indicators, checking the cloud button at the bottom will leave the indicators in place and cloud the graph.
From the cloud you can see the indicators, moving around the graph and I've found it to be a good indicator of status of the two diesel pump belt tensioners.
Tighter cloud dots = better condition of the tensioners and the tension.

[regcheeseman]

First timing screenshot shows a figure in the bottom left hand corner of 38
Then as the coolant temp gets warmer, - on tick over - Reg takes another screenshot.
Second timing screenshot shows a figure in the bottom left hand corner of 18

Don't read to much into that - the shots were taken within a minute or so of each other, I got lucky with the timing of the screen grabs and managed to show the extremities the timing was bouncing around.

Coolant was at 80 degrees.

I took more screen grabs after several flat out log runs - so well up to temp - exactly the same.

I understand the ECU is taken out of the equatoion but should it jump around so much?


Didn't know about the 'cloud' button - will try that next time.

[Activ8]

OK, so here goes...

The screen shots and information are available using VagCom / VCDS software and an appropriate cable.
Reg has used the logging function in the software to record a couple of WOT runs, (Wide Open Throttle) runs in 3rd or 4th gear from approx. 1500rpm to redline.

LogRun1 Download
OK just to make this clear Reg had sent me two spreadsheets...

Group A'003 is the MAF sensor
I've switched the MAF off in the map so the ECU sees all the air it needs without throwing the van into limp mode.

Group B'008 is the Fuel
At 2183 rpm the drivers wish is requesting more fuel 38.6mg/s but being limited by the smoke limiter at 35.4 mg/s
The smoke limiter continues to restrict the fuel all the way to 4182 rpm.
The van starts semi-limp mode between 1918 & 2183 rpm.
The max IQ is 51 mg/s

GroupC'011 is the Boost
The boost is very strong and good but as the van is in limp mode at 2k'ish the the N75 is releasing all the pressure to restrict the power.

1489 1468.8 1132.2 12.8 = closed
1734 1570.8 1264.8 12.8 = closed
1999 1662.6 1458.6 12.8 = closed
2285 1632=1652.4 14.3 = open
2550 1591.2=1693.2 28.3 = open
2815 1570.8=1642.2 37.1 = open
3080 1560.6=1591.2 44.2 = open
3305 1550.4=1591.2 49 = open
3529 1540.2=1570.8 53.4 = open
3713 1530=1560.6 57.4 = open
3876 1519.8=1550.4 60.6 = open
4019 1509.6=1530 62.6 = open
4121 1509.6=1509.6 63.8 = open
4202 1509.6=1509.6 63.4 = open

[Activ8]

Don't read to much into that - the shots were taken within a minute or so of each other, I got lucky with the timing of the screen grabs and managed to show the extremities the timing was bouncing around.
Coolant was at 80 degrees.
I took more screen grabs after several flat out log runs - so well up to temp - exactly the same.
I understand the ECU is taken out of the equatoion but should it jump around so much?
Didn't know about the 'cloud' button - will try that next time.

I'd check the diesel timing belt & tensioners Reg but its too far retarded.
Do another screenshot with the cloud button checked.
The MAF is switched on in the latest map.

[Activ8]

My first thought was that N75 (Charge air valve duty cycle?) is working quite hard? But then it does seem to think that there is 21 psi? of boost so that would explain that.

The N75 is working perfectly.
The boost pressure is bang on , but being released and controlled by the ECU whilst in limp mode.
12.8% is as closed as the ECU allows the wastegate to go.
This figure reflects the map I found for the electronic actuator control.

Is it 21psi? or do I minus atmospheric from the figure?

Minus ATM.... limp mode mate.