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T4 : Battle Across Time (2010 to present)

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  • Is there not a 240 disc that will fit fly wheel and input shaft?

    The race flywheel is light - too light? How is the ring gear positioned differently? Does it have enough mounting holes?

    Regarding your question DMF vrs SMF, I haven't noticed too much difference in normal use. With the SMF there is a little more vibration at idle and more noticeable when coasting in gear as you approach idle. It is barely noticeable, and probably down to a cheap unbalanced flywheel rather than a significant difference in the design. Take-up is the same,.

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    • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
      Is there not a 240 disc that will fit fly wheel and input shaft?
      Nothing found to date. I can get a 240 rebuilt with the 20,3x22,1-28N sizing/teeth.Not cheap enough for a single unit and cannot see a market for more either.
      Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
      The race flywheel is light - too light?
      According to Sachs it's designed for a full race engine, so could be too light for the road/tickover.
      Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
      How is the ring gear positioned differently?
      The 228mm SMF ring gear is 10mm wide, set 30mm from the crank face. The SRE is 10mm wide, but set 17.5mm. The 240 DMF is 10mm set at 35mm. SRE - Ideal with a spacer perhaps?
      Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
      Does it have enough mounting holes?
      No. It's got 6 but I could have it redrilled plus there's enough depth to add a disc plate to strengthen the redrilled face.
      Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
      Regarding your question DMF vrs SMF, I haven't noticed too much difference in normal use. With the SMF there is a little more vibration at idle and more noticeable when coasting in gear as you approach idle. It is barely noticeable, and probably down to a cheap unbalanced flywheel rather than a significant difference in the design. Take-up is the same,.
      Spoke to Darkside about an SMF. They suggest it's needed as the 220mm DMF will fail at higher power bands. They suggested LUK & Sachs were the best DMF units but confirmed something similar to you above. They recommended the SRE gear. Advised +150Nm between 228mm and 240mm Sachs plates. The SRE 240 pressure face plates are made of different steel that's black (carbon content?).
      I'm going 228mm with the SRE sintered & pressure plate (l'll save the paddle!) & reduce the flywheel to 9-10kg, good for 300ft/lb, paddle is 380ft/lb but as my daily run around I want an easy driver.
      Last edited by Activ8; 17 October 2019, 12:00 AM.

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      • Manufacturers Clutch Spline Sizes
        Data Dump.
        Spline:

        20,6x25,8-10N/1"-10N, Alfa Romeo, Volvo (M40/M45 rough)
        23,4x28,9-10N/1 1/8"-10N, Opel, Volvo (M400/M50)
        16x20-10N, Skoda
        23x29-10N, Bmw, Mercedes
        28x35-10N, Bmw, Mercedes
        18,3x20,4-24N, VAG (020-8v)
        22x25-14N, Opel, Saab
        20,1x22,3-20N, Fiat, Lada, Lancia, Ford, Opel, Porsche, Suzuki
        23x26-23N / 1"-23N, Ford, Mitsi, Volvo
        15,1x17,3-20N, Fiat, Lancia,
        23x25-24N, Honda, Nissan
        22,3x25,2-22N, Mazda, Volvo (M45 fine/M46/M47)
        18x20-18N, Skoda
        23,3x26,3-23N, Ford, Mitsubishi, Opel, Porsche, Saab, Toyota, Volvo (M66)
        21,8x24,2-23N, VAG (01E/02M/02Q)
        16,9x19,9-17N, Ford
        24x26-24N, Honda
        26,5x28,4-26N,
        23,1x25,6-24N, Nissan
        22,6x25,2-24N, Subaru
        32,5x35-26N, Bmw
        25,4x28,5-25N, Ssangyong
        28,1x30,5-28N, Audi
        26,5x29-22N, Bmw
        26,5x27,7-26N,
        24,9x28-25N,
        21,4x24,3-21N, Renault
        15,7x18,6-14N, Opel
        25,4x28,5-21N, Toyota
        21,2x23,8-21N, Toyota
        26,5x28,7-26N / 1 1/8"-26N, DC, Merc,VAG
        18,2x21-18N, Citroen, Peugeot, Simca
        20,3x22,1-28N, VAG (020-16v/02A/02J)
        19,1x21,8-20N, Volvo (M56/M90)
        20x21,9-26N, Renault
        Last edited by Activ8; 17 October 2019, 08:15 AM.

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        • Originally posted by Activ8 View Post
          Spoke to Darkside about an SMF. They suggest it's needed as the 220mm DMF will fail at higher power bands. They suggested LUK & Sachs were the best DMF units but confirmed something similar to you above. They recommended the SRE gear. Advised +150Nm between 228mm and 240mm Sachs plates.

          So what 240 plate did Darkside advise?

          They advise 02G for the T4 I presume? But not in their cars?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
            So what 240 plate did Darkside advise?

            They advise 02G for the T4 I presume? But not in their cars?
            They didn't. They aren't particularly clued up on T4's. They were helpful but it was a short conversation as it became apparent I wasn't buying from them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
              So what 240 plate did Darkside advise?

              They advise 02G for the T4 I presume? But not in their cars?
              Might check with Techniclutch , they might have a 240mm SMF 8 hole fixing solution to suit? Or I could machine out the 228mm SMF by 13 mm needed for a 240 plate if I can find something to suit. Really it needs to be a gearbox & clutch solution!

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              • Dropped the SMF flywheel off to DRE for lightening and rebalancing and had a positive chat about building me a new 240mm 20.1x22.3-28N organic clutch disc. The SMF could be refaced to 240mm just. Need to take some SRE parts over to build up a 240mm prototype.

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                • Any larger options that will fit? 242 - 245?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
                    Any larger options that will fit? 242 - 245?
                    Not based on the SMF flywheel I have. You're in a better position to assess the clearances and starter solutions than I am, including the 02Q '240mm' clearances plus you'll need the correct hub/tooth size for the final gearbox choice.
                    Last edited by Activ8; 21 October 2019, 04:29 PM.

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                    • Anybody used "lash caps" on top of the engine valve stems? I'm having a camshaft reprofiled where the base circle of the cam lobes will be reduced, I'm being advised that I'll need to compensate for the difference by placing lash caps on top of the valve stems.
                      Last edited by Activ8; 21 October 2019, 10:00 PM.

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                      • Ive never fitted them , but your going to have to use feeler gauges to work out what size lash caps you need .

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                        • Originally posted by Fruitbat View Post
                          Ive never fitted them , but your going to have to use feeler gauges to work out what size lash caps you need .
                          The guys doing the cam work will supply them Kev.

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                          • Are they not just shims, the same you get under a normal bucket and shim type setup, either sitting as a cap over the valve stem or a round disc on top of the lifter/bucket. I'm guessing the round ones on top would be prone to escape.

                            The shim size would be the same as the material ground off the base circle.

                            Are you going to swap for solid lifters as well?
                            Last edited by regcheeseman; 21 October 2019, 10:48 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
                              Are you going to swap for solid lifters as well?
                              Not got that far tbh.

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                              • Just got a green light and the info back on the 240mm clutch disc hub conversion on the 02B EWB gearbox.

                                This will convert the 02G 21.8x24.2-23N hub to 02B 20.3x22.1-28N hub.

                                So if there's the depth (95mm) to fit the AXG/AHY DMF flywheel plus clutch lever tolerances, I could go to 240mm either as a full LuK conversion, or modified 240mm SMF with Sachs plates or a combo of both.
                                Last edited by Activ8; 22 October 2019, 11:32 AM.

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