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T4 : Battle Across Time (2010 to present)

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  • Originally posted by Activ8 View Post
    Have you rebuilt a 5 cylinder VP44?
    Nope - Don't do TDI, damn direct injection it's just a silly fad that'll never catch on.

    How difficult can it be - they are simple machines.

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    • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
      Nope - Don't do TDI, damn direct injection it's just a silly fad that'll never catch on.

      How difficult can it be - they are simple machines.
      Do you know of an EDC15VM equipped VAG model that uses the VP44?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Activ8 View Post
        Do you know of an EDC15VM equipped VAG model that uses the VP44?
        Scrap that, the pumps not as tunable as the VP37.
        Last edited by Activ8; 25 April 2019, 05:45 AM.

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        • A Lesson in Turbo Compressor Maps

          Pressure Ratio (y-axis) - The absolute outlet pressure divided by the absolute inlet pressure.
          Mass Air Flow Rate (x-axis) - The mass of air flowing through the intake/compressor over time. Usually lbs/min or CFM.
          Surge Line - The left hand boundary of the map, where the air flow is too low for the current pressure ratio. Blow off &/or Bypass valves are often used to relieve excess pressure to prevent sudden off throttle induced pressure surges.
          Choke Line - The right hand boundary of the map, where the turbo is approaching its flow limit
          Overspeed Line - The top boundary of the map, where the turbo is approaching its maximum shaft speed. Past this point, the turbo is liable to "overspin" and cause catastrophic bearing failure.
          Turbo Speed Lines - The lines of constant turbo shaft speed.
          Efficiency Islands - The concentric regions on the map representing compressor efficiency. The smallest island in the center of the map is the "sweet spot", or where turbo is the most efficient.

          Click image for larger version

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          Note: Some Garret & KKK compressor maps are written in m3/s @ 20°C which can be converted to lb/min using a conversion factor of 162.04.

          Next post, some common VAG & T4 Compressor Maps.
          Last edited by Activ8; 29 April 2019, 02:04 PM.

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          • Just while I've got it open on my laptop , the Bosch Volvo VE pump uses a shortened cable with 8 pin EDC connector (7 pins used) and a seperate 4 pin connector (3 pins used) to connect to the older MSA12 ECU where as the AJT and ACV uses a long cable with single full 10 pin connector. Here's a few suggestions for VAG 10 pin connectors you could use to modify / extend the Volvos EDC.

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            11 1J0 973 715 flat contact housing for single wiring:10 pin
            12 6X0 973 815 flat contact housing for single wiring:10 pin

            13 1J0 973 735 flat contact housing for single wiring:10 pin
            14 1J0 973 835 flat contact housing for single wiring:10 pin

            19 3A0 973 715 flat contact housing for single wiring:10 pin
            20 3A0 973 815 flat contact housing for single wiring:10 pin

            Last edited by Activ8; 30 April 2019, 08:31 AM.

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            • DHL Delivery Today

              The new Mamba K24 turbo compressor wheel. An additional £18 at the door for VAT & Duty (Taiwanese Shipper), so a £90 upgrade to date. Billet 47.5mm / 65.94mm 0.52 trim flatback with extended tips. It's not the largest wheel they sell for this shaft size - there's a 54.64/71mm 0.59 trim 11 blade available or even larger at 58.9mm/84.6mm 7+7 blade BUT there's no compressor map "guide" to allow for mapping the turbo correctly - with the size chosen I can at least plot the boost initially, test & adjust if necessary.

              The OEM wheel produces a 320hp (mapped 400bhp) as a cast item (30% heavier in weight) so I 'm calculating lag will be reduced, efficiency increased with a machined & extended 6+6 blade design with a slightly smaller turbine and less effort to spin the compressor.

              Next purchase a new backplate to modify.



              And for anyone interested about balancing compressor wheels - the OEM KKK turbos are balanced to 1.5G @ 0-85000rpm that's 1.5G .... yep that's just 1.5G s (1G is equal to gravitational acceleration (9.8m/s/s)) the same guide for K14, K16 & K24 units! Unlike Garret T3 tolerances of around 0.010G by comparison.

              Oh but my performace will be reduced I hear you say .... If you look at a few compressor maps at the VNT efficiency clouds it's practically negligable and in the calcs, almost a non-existent element in street performance design. When made & sold as new these individual components are "balanced" well beyond the old skool tolerances (up to 180k rpm), the only element that's NOT is the threaded nut holding it together!
              Last edited by Activ8; 16 January 2020, 04:54 PM.

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              • While I've got the turbo housings out , I thought I'd point out the Borg Warner KKK housing sizes....

                Stamped inside our turbine housings are A/R numbers representing the housing size. What is A/R? A/R describes a geometric characteristic of all compressor and turbine housings. It is defined as the inlet cross-sectional area divided by the radius from the turbo centerline to the centroid of that area.

                Click image for larger version

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                They can vary massively so a K14 turbo housing might have anything from 3.5 to 8.18 which greatly affects performance as it indicates the "flow" , smaller causes the turbine to spin quicker at lower rpm's but the downside is higher back pressure at higher rpm. So simply changing the housing can achieve your desired performance and running characteristics.

                The housings run to 20+ for K27 units!

                The AJT / ACV K14 K14-2070GGB/3.8 is stamped "3" and one of the smallest available despite the capability of the compressor. The early Audi / Volvo equivalent cars ran "5.52".



                Cars running 200-300bhp often use a size 6. Porsche ran 8-9 upto the 996T on there early 911's , but unless modified had tons of lag until the mid-range and higher rpm. Here's two examples below ...




                See the stamps?

                Each housing will be designed & cast to take a certain size & shaped turbine wheel but there's often a surplus of material that can be removed to "oversize" the housing to take a larger turbine against its original design.

                The K14, K16 & K24 oil housings all share the same mounting sizes, shaft length, shaft diameter so can be inter- changed with each other albeit machining may be required on the turbine housing, compressor backplate and snail housing.
                Last edited by Activ8; 30 April 2019, 07:19 PM.

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                • Heres a very useful Garrett® Turbo Displacement Power Chart.

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                  Last edited by Activ8; 30 April 2019, 12:38 AM.

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                  • BorgWagner KKK Turbo Component Diagram

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                    • In October of 1998, BorgWarner, Inc. purchased 100% of the net assets of German turbocharger and turbo machinery manufacturer, AG Kühnle, Kopp & Kausch (KKK) renaming it 3K-Warner Turbosystems. In March of the following year BorgWarner acquired Kuhlman Corporation in order to gain access to Schwitzer, Inc., which was a leading manufacturer of turbochargers for commercial transportation and industrial equipment.

                      The OEM fitment for the ACV & AJT is the KKK designed K14-2070GGB/3.8.
                      KKK Part number 5314-988-7025
                      CHRA 5314-710-0529
                      Service Kit 5314-711-0025
                      Gasket Kit 215148

                      The KKK compressor sizing is indicated by the K14 followed by the numbers 2070.
                      20xx refers to the Exducer (the largest diameter of the wheel) in the T4 case 20 is 2.0 inches or 50mm
                      xx70 refers to the Inducer (the smallest diameter of the wheel) in our T4's 70 is a percentage of the Exducer , so 2.0inches x 70% = 1.4inches or 35mm
                      So the compressor wheel on the T4 K14 is 35mm / 50mm.

                      The KKK oil housing & turbine sizing and specs are indicated by the K14 followed by the the letters GGB
                      I haven't worked out this coding but they can range from 3 letters to 5 letters.

                      The turbine housing is size 3.8 indicating it has an A/R of 0.38 or VERY SMALL in turbine terms!

                      Compressor Map - there isn't one for the K14-2070, but heres one for the K03-2072GAA with similar turbine housing sizes. Compressor wheel is 36/50mm.

                      Its highest efficiency cloud (sweet spot) is 72% from 0.06 m3/s @ 1.5PR to 0.11m3/s @ 2.2PR , so as you accelerate you want to drive the turbo pressure where possible through the centre of that 70-72% sweet spots. Thats about 178bhp at the top of the cloud and spinning at almost 160k revolutions. It will do more but if the boost pressure rises so does the PR rise and your sweet spot clouds become less efficient and your turbo is spinning too fast and outside its designed parameter. The PR numbers on the left are the pressure ratio axis and NOT the pressure at your gauge!

                      Pressure Ratio or PR (examples using 1.0psi boost loss for pipework and IC)
                      (1 atm + 1 bar) / (1 atm - 1 psi) = 2.13
                      (1 atm + 1.3 bar) / (1 atm - 1 psi) = 2.45 (see how this is now out of range in the above compressor map)
                      (1 atm + 21 psi + 1 psi) / (1 atm - 1 psi) = 2.68 (see how this is now out of range in the above compressor map)
                      (1 atm + 23 psi + 1 psi) / (1 atm - 1 psi) = 2.83 (see how this is now out of range in the above compressor map)

                      Use This Link to Calculate Your Pressure Ratio (PR)
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Activ8; 1 May 2019, 01:28 PM.

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                      • Next part of the puzzle relies on calculating the pumping efficiency of the engine, I've assumed an efficiency of 85% - the 1.9R-TDI works out at 84.5% VE and as we all know the 5 cyclinder is better (!) and a 2.5tdi with a K14-2070 turbo in this example ....

                        .... then you can plot the airmass movement through the engine as it accelerates to plot on the turbos compressor map.
                        (Just pointing out that I'm using the K03-2072 map & its very slightly better than the K14-2070 version)
                        Break out the high-lighters!



                        The image above shows two boost plots;

                        Yellow: Plotting 1500 -5000rpm
                        Atmospheric Pressure per the Compressor Map is 0.981bar
                        Atmospheric Temperature is 20degC
                        Boost Pressure set is fixed at 1 bar (so just like the 2.4TD upgraders)
                        Performance hits 129.5bhp @ 5000rpm, @ 68% efficiency (albeit theres a compressor stall (see Orange Surge Line on the left at 1500rpm)

                        Pink: Plotting 1500 -5000rpm
                        Atmospheric Pressure per the Compressor Map is 0.981bar
                        Atmospheric Temperature is 20degC
                        Boost Pressures
                        1)1500rpm, 0.55bar (so it now stays within the surge line
                        2)1750rpm, 1.0bar
                        3)2000-5000rpm, 1.2bar (so just like a well mapped 2.5TDI)
                        Performance hits 155.4bhp @ 5000rpm @ 68% efficiency

                        Pretty shit really, but considering you're just tweaking the boost its an easy uplift in performance!
                        This size compressor wheel - if I plotted the OEM boost map - is ideal for the OEM spec.
                        Might do that at coffee break!

                        Use this Link to Calculate Your Pressure Ratio (PR)

                        Here's the compressor map for the VNT20 AXG AHY turbo 074 145 703E.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Last edited by Activ8; 2 May 2019, 12:36 PM.

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                        • All good stuff, I've book marked it to come back to at a later date as it'll get lost inside your build thread.

                          Could you do a Activ8 techno babble separate thread that could be used as reference?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
                            All good stuff, I've book marked it to come back to at a later date as it'll get lost inside your build thread.

                            Could you do a Activ8 techno babble separate thread that could be used as reference?
                            I have thought about doing a 1st page header - "Panini Sticker Book Style" with Picture links (one of your 1st witty observations) but I prefer the eclectic dribbly roll out for now!

                            Had an email back from BorgWarner with some old and new pdf catalogues of turbo goodies and spotted a K16 upgrade they're selling for the 5 cylinder Focus RS & Volvo RS model bi-turbo jobbies. From a bi-turbo 300bhp to a single 370bhp K16..... well I never I thought, peak rpm 5800 don't you know .... K16-2480DGB/8.88 for the Volvo but the Ford (cheapskates) get a BMW Bentley setup using a K16-2477DGBAA/420.98 . Haven't you got a K16 fitted.... [emoji6]
                            Last edited by Activ8; 1 May 2019, 11:08 AM.

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                            • VW T4 Weight and Towing Information

                              Here's the VW supplied EG - Übereinstimmungsbescheinigung or Certificate of Conformity that I used to register a blue longnose SWB AJT Caravelle from Ireland.

                              The weight info is on the left marked ;
                              12.1, Masse des fahrbereiten Fahrzeugs mit Aufbau 1931KG (Unloaded Vehicle Weight includes a Driver and Fuel)
                              14.1, Technisch zulaessige Gesamtmasse 2700KG (Gross Vehicle Weight)
                              14.2, Verteilung dieser Masse auf die Achsen 1 /2 1370-1510KG / 1190-1330KG (Axle Loadings)
                              14.3, Technisch zulaessige maximale Achslast Achsen 1 / 2 1510KG / 1330KG (Maximum Axle Loadings)
                              16. Hoechstzulaessige Belastung des Daches 100KG (Roof Loading)
                              17. Groesste Anhaengelast / gebremst ungrebremst 2000KG / 700KG (Towing Loads Braked / Unbraked)
                              18. Zuelassige Gesamtmasse der Fahrzeugkombination 4500KG (Total Combined Vehicle Loading)

                              So, 2000kg braked / 700kg unbraked but a total vehicle load (van + trailer + trailer load) of 4500kg.

                              Last edited by Activ8; 2 May 2019, 09:49 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Been asked to supply some bike pics to a mate in one of the Military bike clubs I'm thinking of joining (I write "join" but it's a limited membership with resume, proposal and submission process). I've owned and built a few .... but the Club has a leaning towards Harleys.




                                Got a ton more.... but I heard the moans when I typed Harleys. ... [emoji26]

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