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T4 : Battle Across Time (2010 to present)

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  • So,
    I had a restless night subconciously thinking about the last post about the pumps being “equal” with the Bosch quoted fuel delivery of 70mm³/stroke.
    That cannot be accurate, surely, as there are wide physical permutations to the pump itself and delivery of the fuel e.g. pumphead range of 8mm to 12mm, varying nozzle sizes and at what rpm?

    1mm³ = 1µL or 0.000001L or 1e-6L of diesel per stroke, so we have a volume per stroke.
    The density of diesel varies, but 0.85 kg/L as an average value for D2 pump diesel, so 1 kg x 1 L/0.85 kg/h = 1.18 L/h)
    0.85 / 0.00007L/stroke = 0.0000595 kg/stroke of pump diesel .... which is "Bosch rubbish".
    Last edited by Activ8; 20 April 2019, 05:49 PM.

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    • eeeerrrrr.....yeah, that.
      Me cago en la madre que te parió!

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      • If that’s all your losing sleep over mate.Can we swap lives?

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        • Originally posted by Eagles02 View Post
          If that’s all your losing sleep over mate.Can we swap lives?
          No loss of sleep..... " its only ever the depth of shite you're in that changes , the smells the same! "

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          • Looked at the 11mm distribution head and components this morning. Both control sleeves were pretty rigid on the plunger but a soaking in Plusgas loosened them perfectly so they spun effortlessly and rotated along the plunger effortlessly. Make a note of how it fits before stripping the plunger components. The Volvo is fitted with different washers. I couldn't see any differences other than the washer materials which resulted in no wear marks on the plunger.



            The Volvos control sleeve looked like the governor pin hole was slightly more elongated but that could be wear.



            Last edited by Activ8; 20 April 2019, 09:52 PM.

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            • Some hard work and effort gone into this build good on you.

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              • Think you are confused on what the governor might be.

                Control sleeve is a 'spill collar' - that and the pump plunger are a matched pair.

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                • Originally posted by Joely T4 View Post
                  Some hard work and effort gone into this build good on you.
                  Compared to others on here it's not a scratch on them. Mines just my daily / day-van.

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                  • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
                    Think you are confused on what the governor might be.

                    Control sleeve is a 'spill collar' - that and the pump plunger are a matched pair.
                    Thought the governor was the EDC with its pin in the control sleeve?

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                    • Originally posted by Activ8 View Post
                      Interestingly, whilst having an early beer in the sun I spotted this table in a Bosch manual identifying the properties and characteristics of their diesel pumps.



                      Whats interesting is the comparison between the manual governor VE pump models and the later Electronic Control version, in essence "zip" !
                      Both can deliver 70mm3 of fuel. So AAB and AJA owners take heart that the potential is there!
                      Whilst looking for some pump info last night I spotted this from a 1999 catalogue ; (pic to follow)

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Where it states the earlier VE manual pumps are good for 120mm3 per stroke!
                      Last edited by Activ8; 21 April 2019, 09:07 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
                        Think you are confused on what the governor might be.

                        Control sleeve is a 'spill collar' - that and the pump plunger are a matched pair.
                        I'm glad I did pull these pumps apart. I wonder how many people buy a secondhand pump from eBay and simply swap them over? I've had these on the shelf for just two years and both were pulled off working engines.

                        The control sleeve on the ACV pump was solid, the EDC simply could not of worked. It may have been run on veg oil too as the internals have "sticky fatty fuel" deposits in the body unlike the Volvo unit which was clean internally. The control sleeve was not free either but did move.

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                        • Bosch VE Manual Pump Subassemblies and their functions;

                          Click image for larger version

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                          All of the components in (3) above are replaced by the electrically controlled EDC in the TDI engines.

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Click image for larger version

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                          I've got none of this.
                          Last edited by Activ8; 21 April 2019, 09:51 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by Activ8 View Post
                            I wonder how many people buy a secondhand pump from eBay and simply swap them over? I've had these on the shelf for just two years and both were pulled off working engines.

                            The control sleeve on the ACV pump was solid,.
                            See it all the time - 6 months with an open port is enough to gum these pumps horrifically - first to seize is the vane pump, but you cannot see it, a good (bad) indication of a gummed pump is a yellow brown residue and a sticky fuel spill collar.

                            The number of people that decide they cannot afford to pay for a pump rebuild so buy a 'working' pump from eBay - guess how many of these 'good running' pump end up with me for a full rebuild.

                            Got involved in an argument with an ebay seller a while ago - the pump he had sold was not just gummed but extensively rusty. He said it was running when it was removed a few weeks prior so I sent photos and he ended up saying that it must have gone rusty whilst in the post!


                            Originally posted by Activ8 View Post
                            I've got none of this.
                            Yep. As I suggested, I need to pull one of these pumps properly - is the governor solely electronic?

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                            • Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
                              See it all the time - 6 months with an open port is enough to gum these pumps horrifically - first to seize is the vane pump, but you cannot see it, a good (bad) indication of a gummed pump is a yellow brown residue and a sticky fuel spill collar.

                              The number of people that decide they cannot afford to pay for a pump rebuild so buy a 'working' pump from eBay - guess how many of these 'good running' pump end up with me for a full rebuild.
                              I've developed a real admiration for these pumps and realise it's such a fine tuned piece of engineering balancing the internal pressures to deliver timed fuel as it does - it's quite fascinating and NOT for the faint hearted that's for sure.

                              Originally posted by regcheeseman View Post
                              Yep. As I suggested, I need to pull one of these pumps properly - is the governor solely electronic?
                              The governor is totally electrical. I'll send you a Volvo pump down when I'm back later in May.

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                              • Have you rebuilt a 5 cylinder VP44?
                                Last edited by Activ8; 22 April 2019, 12:03 AM.

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