The Caveman Chronicles

[T4vancalledStan]

So its became a grooming site... is that why the forum got shut down??

[Fruitbat]

So its became a grooming site... is that why the forum got shut down??

Trust me you had a lucky escape

[TommyP]

Don’t tar me with that multi coloured rainbow brush! Fuck that. Besides, I don’t suit platform shoes, hot pants and sequins. I leave that to the fag community. Bollocks to that shower of shit.

Kev on the other hand, he only goes for the boy sheep.


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[TommyP]

So I’ve charged the battery and had another punt. First I replaced the fuel inlet with a new 8mm clear pipe. For ease and until it inevitably leaks, I bought a 6mm priming bulb and replaced the fuel return with it. Took a while but it pulled the fuel through again. Still got a bit ass air bubble in a section of the fuel in pipe though. Even with it there I got the injectors to prime. When you try and start it the pump tries to pull fuel but doesn’t seem to be working that hard at it so I’ll have to look again tomorrow. The battery died again (I suspect it isn’t in top condition anymore but it did take a fair bit of cranking today).

I’ve got the timing set at +1.54 as the old pump was. This could be wrong though as it’s all Volvo inside now and it’s been such a long ass journey with this pump that I’ve forgot all the info and whats shared between the Volvo and VW pumps and what’s different. If the camplate is the same then this timing will be correct.

I have ordered insulation and black carpet to do the cab bulkhead and insulate the floor. I’m going to stick the diesel heater from reg in it too. Will be nice to get into a warm and defrosted van in the mornings.

One of the lads at work tested positive for the ‘rona so I closed the site and sent everyone home for 10 days. I’ve got loads of time now to catch up on all the motor jobs I’ve got parts piling up for. Nice to get a bit of time to crack on - this is the first time I’ve had a day off due to the pandemic since it started.


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[TommyP]

When I gave up on the van to let the battery charge again I then started on the golf: this gets battered as i usually just jump in it when I fancy a filthy thrash and kick the fucking guys out of it so it has a hard life and gets neglected. Well the break pad sensor light thingy came on and when I checked, they were all getting a tad old (rear cables also shagged so handbrake sticks on sometimes - already had new calipers) so I just ordered a full set all round for £90. Bargain as they’re 256mm and vented on the back as well as the 312mm fronts. Cables are a pain in the arse as they come in too choices 1723mm or 1710mm iirc. Unions are the same so the bigger ones should be fine whichever the original is.

Been done to death but for a reason: Bora air vents. So much better than the disgracefully cheap and nasty mk4 originals. Having owned not far off 100 motors in my 14 years of driving, I personally rate the the mk4 golf interior as one of the very best across all vehicle types (very closely followed by the Audi C5 A6/Allroad) but the vents are the work of an absolute fucktard of a designer. They REALLY BADLY let the rest of the interior down. So now balance has been restored to the force:

Major interior win for me that one but moving on, the heater blowers can go tits up in mk4’s (another common fault) they wear, don’t spin true and slowly seize up. You can replace the bearings or so I read and replace the bushes but for £48 I just stuck a new one in. You can get them for £39 but I went for a better brand. Easy job, literally 10 minutes. It used to make a right row as it wobbled and bounced around inside the dash, just check out how far out it can be on the piss: whilst it was off, I repaired the knackered glovebox mechanism, yet another common failure point. That’s just prise the glued facia panel off, stick a couple screws in to hold the levers in which snap off the tabs and then glue it back on. Another piece of piss.

Keep looking for some alloys for it. I want 17’s ideally, definitely no bigger as we live in Britain and not Germany so 18’s just bend and crack, I have no interest in them at all. I have also just started considering banded steels for it, 16’s are cheap and readily available. I’d probably do them the same colour as the work vans if I got some and with a slight and very subtle stretch like the vans too. Who knows. As scene as it is, I love BBS LM’s on them. But I think I want to keep the styling subtle and bland (everything the mk4 is good at) so LM’s may not go with my vision. I may even consider just returning the current standard alloys. They’re just an inch too small if you ask me with slightly too much tyre. With a subtle drop of 25mm at the rear and the right wheels it should go unnoticed.


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[TommyP]

Pump still won’t have it. Got it primed and delivering to the injectors as various max fuel settings and static timing points from .75-1.54. Nada.

There’s clearly something wrong with my build. I’ve pulled it off to investigate. It might be that I need a matching gov shaft, flyweight assembly and throttle shaft/spindle from a Land Rover pump to match the throttle plate/fulcrum lever. Also, I have noticed a difference in the donor pump housing between the old and new one: The new donor doesn’t have this cutout to allow for the throttle plate to go back.

The plan now:
Use the old pump with its mis-matched internals as they are known to run and my gut feeling is that the injection window isn’t the issue anyway and rather that it is the range of movement of the spill collar. I just need to careful measure and possibly adapt the gov shaft (grind a tad off the end) depending on the dimensions between the 2 throttle plates.

I really want these issues out the way do it’ll run and I can then concentrate on fitting the diesel heater and make the cab sexy by carpeting the thing and getting rid of the nasty shitty grey everywhere.

Ooo and we might be getting the camper back over the next week or so. Got fuck tonnes to do to that so I’ll be back at the other thread with it.


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[TommyP]

Pump still won’t have it. Got it primed and delivering to the injectors as various max fuel settings and static timing points from .75-1.54. Nada.

There’s clearly something wrong with my build. I’ve pulled it off to investigate. It might be that I need a matching gov shaft, flyweight assembly and throttle shaft/spindle from a Land Rover pump to match the throttle plate/fulcrum lever. Also, I have noticed a difference in the donor pump housing between the old and new one: The new donor doesn’t have this cutout to allow for the throttle plate to go back.

The plan now:
Use the old pump with its mis-matched internals as they are known to run and my gut feeling is that the injection window isn’t the issue anyway and rather that it is the range of movement of the spill collar. I just need to careful measure and possibly adapt the gov shaft (grind a tad off the end) depending on the dimensions between the 2 throttle plates.

I really want these issues out the way do it’ll run and I can then concentrate on fitting the diesel heater and make the cab sexy by carpeting the thing and getting rid of the nasty shitty grey everywhere.

Ooo and we might be getting the camper back over the next week or so. Got fuck tonnes to do to that so I’ll be back at the other thread with it.


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[regcheeseman]

Surely you can get 2.5mm travel on the spill collar on the old pump? That would cover the full range of the piston travel. Will the landy throttle plate go in the original pump?
Shorter gov cage?

Is your dash the same colour as your door cards, I've never noticed it before but my dash is darker than the door cards, is this normal?

[TommyP]

Surely you can get 2.5mm travel on the spill collar on the old pump? That would cover the full range of the piston travel. Will the landy throttle plate go in the original pump?
Shorter gov cage?

Is your dash the same colour as your door cards, I've never noticed it before but my dash is darker than the door cards, is this normal?

I don’t think it does. I’ve read it only does 1.6mm in the IDI pump. LR lever in the old pump is my next course of action. The old pump is a known runner so if I can get the full range of movement then it’ll be the end of the saga.

It makes sense but then there’s info out there (extremely well hidden like any 2.5mtdi info) about modifying the throttle plate for more movement needed on the DI.

I would write this off as internet bullshit but then think I about it, I have to turn the max fuel right down to get it to idle and the fuel starts to get limited at 2700rpm. This all makes sense for a spill collar with inadequate range of travel. Can’t go low enough, can’t get high enough. With the collar being able to move further back on the LR lever, the max fuel could then be wound in to take it to the current position of where it will idle yet it’ll move much further to deliver far more fuel, thus meaning it will no longer be pathetic!

I read that when fitted to the pump, the IDI collar moves 1.6mm and the LR has 2.6mm so it figures that it would need the DI range of movement.

The only issue I have now is that it may still not be perfect due to the extra movement on the throttle spindle. The arm that attaches the spindle to the rocker assembly is longer to also allow for more travel.

The gov flyweight assembly is another unknown. I will try and find what this is set to online on the LR to see if I can adapt mine to suit. If not, I’ll measure the mating faces of the 2 throttle plates where they meet the governor shaft and see if that helps.





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[Activ8]

Surely TommyP you have to consider the camplate lift plus the piston shim for the spill collar positioning? You mentioned in your Whatsapp on Sunday afternoon that you could hear a ticking, might that be the piston bouncing off of the headcap perhaps?

What would happen if the spill collar per revolution released no pressure. It would flood the cylinders perhaps. Might it be over fuelling?

You also mentioned that with the Volvo6 PV it almost started or did start badly but nothing similar with the Volvo5 PV?

[TommyP]

Surely TommyP you have to consider the camplate lift plus the piston shim for the spill collar positioning? You mentioned in your Whatsapp on Sunday afternoon that you could hear a ticking, might that be the piston bouncing off of the headcap perhaps?

What would happen if the spill collar per revolution released no pressure. It would flood the cylinders perhaps. Might it be over fuelling?

You also mentioned that with the Volvo6 PV it almost started or did start badly but nothing similar with the Volvo5 PV?

What? The spill collar just releases the pressure that’s being delivered to the injectors so that doesn’t really figure in anything to do with timing. It just regulates the amount of diesel being injected via injection duration. Sounds clever doesn’t it? I might even be right this time. Lol

Anyway, I’ll explain more later but the 6 pot donor pump housing isn’t at all suitable. Reg may have mentioned this at some point hahahahaa!

And no, not even the slightest hint of starting on this pump.

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[Activ8]

I wasn't thinking of timing TP but the poor positioning of the spill collar. It has to be located so it can "spill" the pressure.

Thanks for the pics on Whatsapp. MysticReg - his one eye, just knows!

[regcheeseman]

then it’ll be the end of the saga.

hmmmmm.....

It makes sense but then there’s info out there (extremely well hidden like any 2.5mtdi info) about modifying the throttle plate for more movement needed on the DI.

I recall a long time ago a discussion regarding changing the fulcrum on the throttle plate, it was suggested that this was whats Giles was doing, I was on a US site and the hyperbole and internet bullshit levels were off the scale, think he was charging 1500 for one of his 'superpumps' as they were modestly titled back then, I'd have liked to get hold of one, doubt there was much very 'super' about them, but cards were held very tightly to chest.
(surprisingly) I fell out with most of the yanks on that forum, there were a lot of repeated internet myths and disinformation being spread and a big push to sell certain stuff from certain vendors (sound familiar?) but it was useful to find the odd (in most respects) person that actually knew a thing or two and was happy to share knowledge and ideas. The twin fulcrum landy plate may be the solution you need but it seems it needs to be tailored to suit the mis-mash application.

I would write this off as internet bullshit but then think I about it, I have to turn the max fuel right down to get it to idle and the fuel starts to get limited at 2700rpm. This all makes sense for a spill collar with inadequate range of travel. Can’t go low enough, can’t get high enough. With the collar being able to move further back on the LR lever, the max fuel could then be wound in to take it to the current position of where it will idle yet it’ll move much further to deliver far more fuel, thus meaning it will no longer be pathetic!

I think you might be onto something here, I'd say the plate and spill needs to travel further back (towards camplate) so you can wind in the fuel screw and keep the idle.

I read that when fitted to the pump, the IDI collar moves 1.6mm and the LR has 2.6mm so it figures that it would need the DI range of movement.

I might have a closer look at the box of throttle plates I have here, see if there's anything of any use, it'll be good to through a few more unknown random parts into the frankenpump.

The only issue I have now is that it may still not be perfect due to the extra movement on the throttle spindle. The arm that attaches the spindle to the rocker assembly is longer to also allow for more travel.

May have something for this as well....

The gov flyweight assembly is another unknown.

Isn't it just, never found anything that really explains it very well...

[arfur fox-acre]

You took the words out of my mouth Reg.
I was just gonna say that.

Beat me to it.

[TommyP]

hmmmmm.....




I recall a long time ago a discussion regarding changing the fulcrum on the throttle plate, it was suggested that this was whats Giles was doing, I was on a US site and the hyperbole and internet bullshit levels were off the scale, think he was charging 1500 for one of his 'superpumps' as they were modestly titled back then, I'd have liked to get hold of one, doubt there was much very 'super' about them, but cards were held very tightly to chest.
(surprisingly) I fell out with most of the yanks on that forum, there were a lot of repeated internet myths and disinformation being spread and a big push to sell certain stuff from certain vendors (sound familiar?) but it was useful to find the odd (in most respects) person that actually knew a thing or two and was happy to share knowledge and ideas. The twin fulcrum landy plate may be the solution you need but it seems it needs to be tailored to suit the mis-mash application.



I think you might be onto something here, I'd say the plate and spill needs to travel further back (towards camplate) so you can wind in the fuel screw and keep the idle.



I might have a closer look at the box of throttle plates I have here, see if there's anything of any use, it'll be good to through a few more unknown random parts into the frankenpump.



May have something for this as well....



Isn't it just, never found anything that really explains it very well...

There’s a big mtdi thread on another forum (can’t remember which, might be VWdieselnet) and It must have been back when Giles was starting as he deleted all his posts. Then, amazingly, this guy called “Hey” came out of nowhere and his knowledge dominated the thread from that moment. The pics are mostly gone but I did find this along with shitloads of info: he also says the top needs trimming slightly so that it doesn’t foul the lid. This is the very reason that I started looking into the fulcrum levers and why I’ve now got, and fitted, the LR lever with the hole re drilled to the other side as it’s a different handed pump. I’ve done all the measurements and it all checks out where it counts, movement backwards toward idle, distance/gap between the gov flyweight shaft etc and it looks perfect, or at least the same where it counts as the IDI lever but with greater movement of the spill collar. I was lucky and got it for £10 or something like that from a lad selling the complete LR engine with possibly faulty pump.

The throttle spindle from the LR pumps is easily available thanks to repair kits from leaky spindles so that’s an easy one to sort of it need to be. Thank fuck.


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