The Caveman Chronicles

[TommyP]

Dti said the timing was too far advanced so I set it to +1.15 and now it barely runs or responds to any throttle. Back under it I go hahaha


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[TommyP]

Set at 1.6 and it will run but hardly any throttle control and white smokes like a bitch.

When I first check this morning it was at +2.0 and ran well but no top end grunt. This sounds outrageously advanced on paper but it sounded sweet. Back to 2.0 and the drawing board.


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[TommyP]

Set it to 2.2 just to see what it was like as there was plenty of adjustment to retard back to 2.0 if needed and it was fine(ish) again.

Still got the high idle if you rev it but if you lift the clutch to drag the revs down they stay low until you rev it again. Lol.

Activ and my neighbour (diesel mechanic) suggested crank/cam timing which I dismissed initially (I checked it multiple times as it was done a couple weeks ago) but then it got me thinking. I can’t see the tdc mark on my Valeo SMF flywheel so I marked a tooth when it was out 2 weeks ago. Could my mark be out enough?

I’m not expert but I seriously doubt that it’s advanced to +2.2 and doesn’t sound horrendous or smoke. So is my mark out? Which I also used to time the cam to as well.........

I remember having this issue when I last timed the 2.4td but I managed to find tdc by the 2 prongs on the clutch cover, this doesn’t look the same now, the flywheel can only be mounted one way so that can’t be wrong but could the clutch differ? I didn’t think it could but now I’m doubting that so I think the next port of call is check the timing.

Could be one of a number of things tho:

Turbo actuator spring strength (interchangeable so easy to check/change)
BOV set too low releasing boost
Diesel pump (maybe banjo?)
Timing

And more......

Although it does drive well and has good low down grunt (you wouldn’t think there’s an issue if you changed gear low if it wasn’t for the idle) I’m not sure if I’m happy taking it to work again yet. I don’t want to risk damaging anything.

I can’t get boost above 6-7 psi but that could be either turbo or associated elements or fueling. I think the turbo would cause low fueling as the LDA will limit fuel until the boost rises then the pin would allow more so it could be either.

Also, I tried booting it but it feels like the Governor is kicking in uber early, I can’t actually get it to rev over approximately 3k. Foot flat to the floor, no smoke and it won’t go any more until the next gear. How have a made an MTdi with limp home mode hahahahahaha!

It’s all very interesting tho, I’ve still got all my patience for it and I’m looking forward to working through the stages to get to the bottom of it.

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[TommyP]

I dug this up and it seems my mark is pretty much spot on....


https://www.valeoservice.co.uk/en-uk...tdi?country=GB

It’s possibly half a tooth out but I can’t imagine that would cause the cam to be out that far and definitely not make the timing at +2.2 correct either.

I’ll still doubt check it but I think it’s fairly safe to say that this will be ruled out.


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[Activ8]

Take that Dynamic Advance spacer/gasket & the spring shims out! Is it running ALL the AJT 11mm pump head components including the modified camplate?

Could that be now be statically misaligned?

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[TommyP]

Take that Dynamic Advance spacer/gasket & the spring shims out! Is it running ALL the AJT 11mm pump head components including the modified camplate?

Could that be now be statically misaligned?

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Yes I believe it is running all the Tdi bits.


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[regcheeseman]

Take that Dynamic Advance spacer/gasket & the spring shims out! Is it running ALL the AJT 11mm pump head components including the modified camplate?

Could that be now be statically misaligned?

VW tdi camplate and volvo pumphead.

It could be misaligned, I did note that the rollers that the camplate runs on are in a different phase between mech and tdi pumps but cant see how that makes a difference as the rollers only purpose is to guide the piston in/out five times per pump rev.

Tommy - does it run clean at all?

You could try timing the pump up to the four other points where it comes up on the camplate, could be delivering to the wrong injectors - that would give the clatter and the smoke, injector lines fitted in the correct sequence? 12453?



2.2 lift is insane, can't be right - it only has 2.4 to play with! You have the OUT banjo in the return don't you! But if it's not starting injection until 2.2, no wonder you are running out of fuel and limping.

Could be one of a number of things tho:

Turbo actuator spring strength (interchangeable so easy to check/change) - anything turbo is irrelevant at this stage, needs to run properly first
BOV set too low releasing boost - ditto
Diesel pump (maybe banjo?)
Timing - looks favourite to me, and crank timing at that (flywheel to crank relationship).... I've had a flyweel timing mark that was about 40 degrees out, no idea how or why as the flywheel 'should' only fit one way, and that flywheel was fine before the engine was rebuilt (no not by me). Took ages to find that, we had the sump off looking for other things and spotted the con rod wasn't at tdc, we had to find piston TDC through injector port as I recall.

And more......

I'm wondering if that volvo pump head is no good, could be that the end cap is incompatible, there's too much volume in the high pressure end of the pump head and it's failing to create adequate pressure???

Chuck a known good standard five pot pump on it and get it running

Or fit the tdi pump head from my pump which .....I think is out in my garage.....bummer.

[TommyP]

VW tdi camplate and volvo pumphead.

It could be misaligned, I did note that the rollers that the camplate runs on are in a different phase between mech and tdi pumps but cant see how that makes a difference as the rollers only purpose is to guide the piston in/out five times per pump rev.

Tommy - does it run clean at all?

You could try timing the pump up to the four other points where it comes up on the camplate, could be delivering to the wrong injectors - that would give the clatter and the smoke, injector lines fitted in the correct sequence? 12453?



2.2 lift is insane, can't be right - it only has 2.4 to play with! You have the OUT banjo in the return don't you! But if it's not starting injection until 2.2, no wonder you are running out of fuel and limping.



I'm wondering if that volvo pump head is no good, could be that the end cap is incompatible, there's too much volume in the high pressure end of the pump head and it's failing to create adequate pressure???

Chuck a known good standard five pot pump on it and get it running

Or fit the tdi pump head from my pump which .....I think is out in my garage.....bummer.

Yes it does run clean, did you see that video I posted a bit further back in this thread? It drives nicely at low revs. I’ve done a few miles in it today whilst testing. It’ll get up to 60 no issues, just not over and not quite as hastily as it should.

It’s not misfiring either. When timed to less that +2.0 it behaves just like a heavily retarded pump. As per the vid, when timed as it is now, it doesn’t smoke at all at idle. Just a puff when you gas on from low revs

I’ve got the fuel screw wound pretty far out as it shot off like a rocket when I was getting it going.

I’ve got the 2.4 pump head in the back of the van but I think the camplate is in your garage with the Tdi head. Lol

Should I just look for a 2.5 pump and swap the lot into it? I’m also going to close up the BOV just to rule that out and swap for another VGT spring to cross that off the list too.


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[regcheeseman]

I'd be tempted to check that the TDC mark on the fly does equal number one piston at TDC.

Needs more fuel screw, though you are going to have more of an issue with idle hanging up without a spring on the residual fuel adjuster to pull the throttle plate back to idle....

Cant fit LDA to a 2.5tdi pump bottom end.

Shouldn't need 2mm lift - something aint right.

[Activ8]

Tommy. You told me yesterday and this morning during our call that you'd set the pump timing to.0.9? Did you then add the Dynamic Advance spacer and shims?

Did you recheck the static timing after fitting it?

11.32hrs
"It sounds really healthy so I’ll have to see how it goes with more advance. I’m just trawling the web to see what others have done with setting up their mTdi’s but there’s not much info on the 2.5 so I’m having to go by the golf and caddy lads with their 4 cylinders. I set this to +0.9 as a baseline to get it running. Didn’t start brilliantly first thing tho and touch the cold start advance kills the engine?!? Can’t work that one out lol"



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[TommyP]

I'd be tempted to check that the TDC mark on the fly does equal number one piston at TDC.

Needs more fuel screw, though you are going to have more of an issue with idle hanging up without a spring on the residual fuel adjuster to pull the throttle plate back to idle....

Cant fit LDA to a 2.5tdi pump bottom end.

Shouldn't need 2mm lift - something aint right.

I timed the 2.4 up with that mark to +1.0 and it ran well. I also worried if the mark was off but going back through the info if it’s half a tooth the mark I’ve made then that’s all.

I meant a matched Tdi head and camplate lol.


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[TommyP]

Tommy. You told me yesterday and this morning during our call that you'd set the pump timing to.0.9? Did you then add the Dynamic Advance spacer and shims?

Did you recheck the static timing after fitting it?

11.32hrs
"It sounds really healthy so I’ll have to see how it goes with more advance. I’m just trawling the web to see what others have done with setting up their mTdi’s but there’s not much info on the 2.5 so I’m having to go by the golf and caddy lads with their 4 cylinders. I set this to +0.9 as a baseline to get it running. Didn’t start brilliantly first thing tho and touch the cold start advance kills the engine?!? Can’t work that one out lol"



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No I put the spacer on before I fitted the pump. But yes I swear I set it to +0.9 but when I got it running and then checked again it was +2! I know how to use a fucking dti so I was stunned. Maybe something has moved inside the pump and is jammed.

And yes, cold start kills the engine like an old pull stop on a tractor.


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[Activ8]

Exactly, you know you set it to 0.9 & later it read 2.0!

Get the pump off.

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[TommyP]

I’ve come to work in it today, will report back tonight.


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[Activ8]

Heres the dynamic advance setup. Yours has shifted across and because its designed for a Land Rover VP37 the components have possibly rotated too far and jammed or simply shifted over because of the play added. Its moved 0.9 - 2.0 = 1.1mm in its static position.

Remove the 'dynamic' gasket and spring shims and it'll be right albeit for needing the timing tweaked again. A full range of revs will be restored.

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