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wino_pete
14th January 2018, 10:52 AM
Hi all I am new to this site, I have an Auto sleeper Trident camper 2001 T4 with a 2.4 ltr, Diesel engine that is gutless and only does 28 mpg.
I have been offered a 2.5 turbo engine fitted for 1500. I have been told it is faster and more economical.
I am looking for opinions on this, thanks Pete

S49
14th January 2018, 11:00 AM
That would be about right.......don't know what you'd have to modify wiring wise, that would be the only bug bear. Theres sure to be someone on here that's done that conversion. Oh and hello and welcome.

S49
14th January 2018, 11:03 AM
Sorry missed the fitted price bit, sounds like a good deal.

Activ8
14th January 2018, 11:08 AM
Hi all I am new to this site, I have an Auto sleeper Trident camper 2001 T4 with a 2.4 ltr, Diesel engine that is gutless and only does 28 mpg.
I have been offered a 2.5 turbo engine fitted for 1500. I have been told it is faster and more economical.
I am looking for opinions on this, thanks PeteWelcome, any pics? Does the conversion include a box swap or is it just the engine?

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wino_pete
14th January 2018, 11:49 AM
just the engine with new water pump and cam belts

Greeny gtc
14th January 2018, 01:43 PM
Welcome along, we need some pics though

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Activ8
14th January 2018, 01:47 PM
Which engine code are they fitting?

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Thebigredone
14th January 2018, 01:51 PM
Hi and welcome mate, I'm sure Activ8 will know but will the 2.5tdi engine not need all the interior clocks too for the ecu etc ?

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Activ8
14th January 2018, 02:03 PM
Personally , I'd up the fuel .and turbo charge the 2.4d and as Thebigredone has eluded to , avoid the "complete rebuild" ... but for 1500 face value it's worth getting a full breakdown of the offer.

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Activ8
14th January 2018, 03:51 PM
Just did some mental arithmetic and there's at least 1k in parts and say a weeks labour... plus if you keep your replaced items about 1k back'ish in sellable parts!

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mick1070
15th January 2018, 09:27 AM
Just did some mental arithmetic and there's at least 1k in parts and say a weeks labour... plus if you keep your replaced items about 1k back'ish in sellable parts!

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Great shout Acive8, Wino-Pete make sure you get the old parts. It could make the conversion, if you go ahead with it very cheap. Sell the parts on Ebay, Gumtree or on the pages on this site dedicated to selling spares.

Activ8
15th January 2018, 09:44 AM
Thought some more about this over the last 24 hours. It's sort of the long way round to get a little more bhp and torque. It's a shed load of work and based on the price , it's a potential fall out with the mechanics... and then marrying it to the existing torque converter and auto box. Engine & ECU must come off another Auto otherwise there's an expensive switch over in the ECU. I suspect this will end up costing more in the long run.

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d-9
15th January 2018, 11:29 AM
Seems very cheap. Any service history on the new engine? No need to swap clocks, t4 immobiliser is in a separate box behind the dash, not in the clocks (apart from very late vans).

Activ8 - I think you could get away with running a manual ecu in an auto.

Activ8
15th January 2018, 11:59 AM
Agreed it reads as a cheap price.

Yep possible I suppose. I've never done a gearbox conversion.
What I can see on the T4 ECU's is engine/ECU matching, specific ECU's only with AUTO software which is loaded with 3 "choice" maps for 4x4, Auto & Manual. The gearbox mapping is a number of choice switches rather than Plug & Play plus additional calibration functions. Hands up - never done it but I can see the work tracing through the switches to do it properly.

Extra torque through the Auto gearbox might cause some issues.
Again, never had an Auto.

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regcheeseman
16th January 2018, 12:17 AM
Hi all I am new to this site, I have an Auto sleeper Trident camper 2001 T4 with a 2.4 ltr, Diesel engine that is gutless and only does 28 mpg.
I have been offered a 2.5 turbo engine fitted for 1500. I have been told it is faster and more economical.
I am looking for opinions on this, thanks Pete

Seems too cheap to me.... be wary.

28mpg is very poor - is that down to the camper size/weight or the auto box - in which case you need to change the box.

What do other owners get mileage wise?

I'd guess setting the timing properly might make it a bit less gutless and get some better mpg figures - my old 2.4 camper (swb/standard roof) used to return 32-35 and would hold 80 quite happily.

d-9
16th January 2018, 12:20 AM
I know the later ECUs will throw a fault for no communication from auto box if you run an auto ecu in a manual car, not sure if the t4 ecu talks to the box, but going through other way shouldn't fault. You're right the torque could be an issue, those boxes are fragile enough as it is!

Activ8
16th January 2018, 12:39 AM
I know the later ECUs will throw a fault for no communication from auto box if you run an auto ecu in a manual car, not sure if the t4 ecu talks to the box, but going through other way shouldn't fault. You're right the torque could be an issue, those boxes are fragile enough as it is!

I cannot say with any certainty, but looking at the EEPROM file for the ACV for example, theres 3 seperated memory address blocks, first for Manual gearbox, second for 4x4 and third for Auto.
The blocks of data are similar but the maps are different and the values contained within them different. There are specific gearbox maps and switches.

If I get time this week I'll dig a little deeper.

d-9
16th January 2018, 11:57 AM
I suspect you're right, it's probably torque limited for the auto (and 4x4...Wonder if that's why my mates 102tdi is so slow...)

I assume the ecu can be set to aito/manual/4x4 using vagcom

Activ8
16th January 2018, 01:35 PM
Your pals T4 is probably running constantly in semi-limp mode!

I took a quick look this morning, and almost all of the maps are different, restricting fuel / boost / torque etc across the board.
Didn't bother looking at the switches, as theres a lot. Too many changes for a VCDS switch/channel, so unlikely.

What VCDS codes are being flagged up?

I could take a look if you can read his file?
No promises, but I do have a manual ACV file to compare your pals against.

d-9
17th January 2018, 12:00 AM
Can you read these over odb, or do I need to devolved?

Last time I looked, no codes were getting flagged and the live blocks were near what I would expect, I need to take another look.

Activ8
17th January 2018, 12:13 AM
Can you read these over odb, or do I need to devolved?

Last time I looked, no codes were getting flagged and the live blocks were near what I would expect, I need to take another look.

You need to read the ECU EEPROM? Yes you would use the K-Line/OBD port.
Happy to help,

wino_pete
22nd January 2018, 10:51 AM
Hi all I am new to this site, I have an Auto sleeper Trident camper 2001 T4 with a 2.4 ltr, Diesel engine that is gutless and only does 28 mpg.
I have been offered a 2.5 turbo engine fitted for 1500. I have been told it is faster and more economical.
I am looking for opinions on this, thanks Pete

Hello again, the camper van was built by a company called Auto sleeper, it has a manual gear box, the guy who offered me the engine swap is a diesel mechanic of many years he says that he will leave in the mechanical fuel pump so no need for extra electrics. Pete

Activ8
22nd January 2018, 01:20 PM
Hello again, the camper van was built by a company called Auto sleeper, it has a manual gear box, the guy who offered me the engine swap is a diesel mechanic of many years he says that he will leave in the mechanical fuel pump so no need for extra electrics. Pete


Hi Pete,
So the mechanic is actually swapping the two engines over -
block and head?
keeping the turbo fitted, but with a fixed low boost?
keeping the high pressure 220bar TDI injectors?
changing pump for the low pressure 2.4d pump?
keeping your 2.4d gearbox?

I am making some assumptions because the detail is light, so you cannot write-it-off, but....
It reads to me that you're just jumping out of the frying pan?
And paying 1500 for the privilege...

regcheeseman
22nd January 2018, 02:29 PM
Hi Pete,
So the mechanic is actually swapping the two engines over -
block and head?
keeping the turbo fitted, but with a fixed low boost?
keeping the high pressure 220bar TDI injectors?
changing pump for the low pressure 2.4d pump?
keeping your 2.4d gearbox?

I am making some assumptions because the detail is light, so you cannot write-it-off, but....
It reads to me that you're just jumping out of the frying pan?
And paying 1500 for the privilege...

More eloquently put, but that was my assumption too.

So your diesel mechanic is afraid of wires but is quite happy to provide a hideous bodge job?

I knew the 1500 price was too good for a decent job

Activ8
22nd January 2018, 07:45 PM
Pete,
fundamentally, your 2.4d engine is a very good engine.
So heres some constructive help....

Suggestion 1
Spend the money on finding out why its not running right.
Timing - check and correct, belts tensioners etc. etc..
Injectors - get them pulled out, cleaned and refurbished. PM Reg and get a price.
Pump - get it pulled off, tested , cleaned and refurbished. PM Reg and get a price.
Full service.

Suggestion 2
Ask the diesel mechanic to fit the full 2.5TDI and electrics.

Suggestion 3
Buy the full 2.5TDI, gearbox and electrics from the mechanic and find someone who can transfer it all over.
Resell your 2.4d, gear box etc.

Suggestion 4
Suggestion 1 + low boost turbo upgrade once its running right. PM Reg and get a price.

wino_pete
23rd January 2018, 11:23 AM
Pete,
fundamentally, your 2.4d engine is a very good engine.
So heres some constructive help....

Suggestion 1
Spend the money on finding out why its not running right.
Timing - check and correct, belts tensioners etc. etc..
Injectors - get them pulled out, cleaned and refurbished. PM Reg and get a price.
Pump - get it pulled off, tested , cleaned and refurbished. PM Reg and get a price.
Full service.

Suggestion 2
Ask the diesel mechanic to fit the full 2.5TDI and electrics.

Suggestion 3
Buy the full 2.5TDI, gearbox and electrics from the mechanic and find someone who can transfer it all over.

Resell your 2.4d, gear box etc.

Suggestion 4
Suggestion 1 + low boost turbo upgrade once its running right. PM Reg and get a price.
Thanks M8 I've decided not to go ahead with engine swap I was unsure about it and looking at your post helped me decide.
It is a good engine that has only done 80K miles it needs new cam belts so will have that done, Better the devil you know and all that. Pete.

Activ8
23rd January 2018, 11:36 AM
Thanks M8 I've decided not to go ahead with engine swap I was unsure about it and looking at your post helped me decide.
It is a good engine that has only done 80K miles it needs new cam belts so will have that done, Better the devil you know and all that. Pete.

A clear decision is a good decision Pete.
80k is nothing on these engines, and they will continue to serve you well IF you regularly give it the TLC they need.
Belts if needed are a good start mate, but plan to service the pump and injectors.
Pulling the manifolds off and giving them a good clean will help no end, the unburnt diesel can crystalize solid and build up in the ports creating restrictions.
For very little money and investment the vans "mojo" can be returned to "as new".
The van and engine will then continue to give you great service.
Keep the forum updated with your progress.Regards.